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| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
 Jade Constantine    |
Posted - 2003.12.23 21:59:00 -
[1] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 23/12/2003 22:00:10 Dream on Sun Wu, your analysis is burdened with a child's simplicity. Your reasoning is borrowed third hand from a storybook, and furthermore, m'dear, you think to fly on gilded wings in the face of established fact. Not going to happen. Far from being the military "might" and financial "muscle" of the VA; the former TTI was an albatross around its neck, with CEO Ragnar dabbling in power politics and assassinations and then hiding behind a shield of VA corps to escape the consequences of his actions. When asked to flex financial muscle in defense of the alliance Taggart refused. Offering only to make laughable BYOM deals to fighters in a warzone. In terms of active participation Taggart was relatively small. And consistantly hindered by rather cowardly military leadership in the form of Roark/Ragnar. Taggart brought the storm to the VA. And refused to pay the piper. It was no surprise that a confidence vote in some form was heard. I asked Ragnar to match my personal investment in proportion of corporation size. He refused, and prefered to threaten VA corps with unspecified "bad things" if they refused to vote his way. This all came out in the faithful council meeting... But for all that, the VA chose to fight to the last with Taggart a member. All choose to honour that vote. Except Ragnar. He declared the council and vote void and powerless and declared pogram and formation of the Piratical alliance. The rest is history. And none of those facts are open to question given the massive weight of factual, chat-log, and anecdotal evidence backing them up. Time for you to go back to school Sun Wu. Love and peace JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.23 21:59:00 -
[2] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 23/12/2003 22:00:10 Dream on Sun Wu, your analysis is burdened with a child's simplicity. Your reasoning is borrowed third hand from a storybook, and furthermore, m'dear, you think to fly on gilded wings in the face of established fact. Not going to happen. Far from being the military "might" and financial "muscle" of the VA; the former TTI was an albatross around its neck, with CEO Ragnar dabbling in power politics and assassinations and then hiding behind a shield of VA corps to escape the consequences of his actions. When asked to flex financial muscle in defense of the alliance Taggart refused. Offering only to make laughable BYOM deals to fighters in a warzone. In terms of active participation Taggart was relatively small. And consistantly hindered by rather cowardly military leadership in the form of Roark/Ragnar. Taggart brought the storm to the VA. And refused to pay the piper. It was no surprise that a confidence vote in some form was heard. I asked Ragnar to match my personal investment in proportion of corporation size. He refused, and prefered to threaten VA corps with unspecified "bad things" if they refused to vote his way. This all came out in the faithful council meeting... But for all that, the VA chose to fight to the last with Taggart a member. All choose to honour that vote. Except Ragnar. He declared the council and vote void and powerless and declared pogram and formation of the Piratical alliance. The rest is history. And none of those facts are open to question given the massive weight of factual, chat-log, and anecdotal evidence backing them up. Time for you to go back to school Sun Wu. Love and peace JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2003.12.23 22:17:00 -
[3] Pieman, Li ShangYin is one of the ex-taggart "intelligensia" (sic) that refused to wake up and smell the quafe at the close of the venal civil war. As a result, historical revisionism and hokey political analysis has become his forte. Doubtless he has convinced himself that "iron duke" Ragnar, was leading 20 battleship taggart defense armadas against Evolution at H-PA29 every night for a month before being betrayed by the oily VA council (or some such rot). Word to the wise; don't waste too much breath on debating with the true believers, faith (even profoundly misplaced) has a way of allow men to see strange vistas of alternative realities. Let's allow Li ShangYin to walk across the hot coals of his own folly in quiet respect for the mentally deranged. Love and peace JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.23 22:17:00 -
[4] Pieman, Li ShangYin is one of the ex-taggart "intelligensia" (sic) that refused to wake up and smell the quafe at the close of the venal civil war. As a result, historical revisionism and hokey political analysis has become his forte. Doubtless he has convinced himself that "iron duke" Ragnar, was leading 20 battleship taggart defense armadas against Evolution at H-PA29 every night for a month before being betrayed by the oily VA council (or some such rot). Word to the wise; don't waste too much breath on debating with the true believers, faith (even profoundly misplaced) has a way of allow men to see strange vistas of alternative realities. Let's allow Li ShangYin to walk across the hot coals of his own folly in quiet respect for the mentally deranged. Love and peace JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2003.12.23 23:53:00 -
[5] ;) JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.23 23:53:00 -
[6] ;) JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2003.12.24 05:22:00 -
[7] I think you meant "beat" as in "beat ... a hasty retreat" mongo. I remember the scenites petitioning for mercy at the close of the civil war. Silly of us to grant it with the benefit of hindsight, but hey, these things happen eh? Love and peace JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.24 05:22:00 -
[8] I think you meant "beat" as in "beat ... a hasty retreat" mongo. I remember the scenites petitioning for mercy at the close of the civil war. Silly of us to grant it with the benefit of hindsight, but hey, these things happen eh? Love and peace JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2003.12.24 14:30:00 -
[9] Li ShangYin, the reason I disparage your intellectual capabilities and blind fervour for pro-taggart revisionism is (for one thing) that you can't help but contradict your argument totally in two short sentences. Earlier you said...
While in the later text you admit.
Ummm, the only "simple" thing here m'dear, is the ease with which its still possible to get you ex taggart hardliners to contradict yourselves and stray arguments into outright blatent lying and falsehood. How is the neutral reader supposed to give credence to anything else you say when you have boldly asserted one thing (that you now admit was a lie) ... only to go on to boldly assert more spurious "facts". You sir, are a mock. As for the rest. Its clearly known that my proposal for provisional funding was based on headcount. I did this because I wished Taggart to "put up or shut up" on the issue of their inflated member count. Ragnar/Roark (the same person) had been using the member count to veto policy in the VA for quite some time. I thought it reasonable to give Taggart the chance to pay for the increased influence they thought to claim. Of course, if Ragnar had admitted then that you were only 30-40 actives and thus only wanted about twice the voting power of Jericho for twice the funding. There would have been no problem. Of Sun's analysis, its not a question of not liking it, but of laughing in the face of its founding premise. TTI was neither a financial or military power in the VA, due mainly to a cowardly war strategy from Ragnar/Roark and a mean-fisted economic stance from Ragnar/Roark. Sure, there were some heroic fighters like Anla Shock and MarkA. But they were lone pilots. Financially, the only people who ever saw the benefit were Ragnar's pet killers. As we have discussed already, Taggart refused to back the alliance with financial commitment in proportion to the rest. In comparison "little jericho" was more economically significant to the VA, we at least supported the alliance with our isk.
Well yes, but that was fairly obvious, but for the record, ... are there such things as "non-military" pirates monsieur? Love and peace JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.24 14:30:00 -
[10] Li ShangYin, the reason I disparage your intellectual capabilities and blind fervour for pro-taggart revisionism is (for one thing) that you can't help but contradict your argument totally in two short sentences. Earlier you said...
While in the later text you admit.
Ummm, the only "simple" thing here m'dear, is the ease with which its still possible to get you ex taggart hardliners to contradict yourselves and stray arguments into outright blatent lying and falsehood. How is the neutral reader supposed to give credence to anything else you say when you have boldly asserted one thing (that you now admit was a lie) ... only to go on to boldly assert more spurious "facts". You sir, are a mock. As for the rest. Its clearly known that my proposal for provisional funding was based on headcount. I did this because I wished Taggart to "put up or shut up" on the issue of their inflated member count. Ragnar/Roark (the same person) had been using the member count to veto policy in the VA for quite some time. I thought it reasonable to give Taggart the chance to pay for the increased influence they thought to claim. Of course, if Ragnar had admitted then that you were only 30-40 actives and thus only wanted about twice the voting power of Jericho for twice the funding. There would have been no problem. Of Sun's analysis, its not a question of not liking it, but of laughing in the face of its founding premise. TTI was neither a financial or military power in the VA, due mainly to a cowardly war strategy from Ragnar/Roark and a mean-fisted economic stance from Ragnar/Roark. Sure, there were some heroic fighters like Anla Shock and MarkA. But they were lone pilots. Financially, the only people who ever saw the benefit were Ragnar's pet killers. As we have discussed already, Taggart refused to back the alliance with financial commitment in proportion to the rest. In comparison "little jericho" was more economically significant to the VA, we at least supported the alliance with our isk.
Well yes, but that was fairly obvious, but for the record, ... are there such things as "non-military" pirates monsieur? Love and peace JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2003.12.24 16:37:00 -
[11] Yep, never fear Pieman, the proportion of complainers to silent readers who actually appreciate people who tell the history of things is mercifully small in reality. You'll always get a little nonsense, it shows you are being taken seriously. Anyhow, merry christmas everyone on both sides, its been a fun year to date. Lets get sloshed and have a ball and eat too much ;) Love and peace JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.24 16:37:00 -
[12] Yep, never fear Pieman, the proportion of complainers to silent readers who actually appreciate people who tell the history of things is mercifully small in reality. You'll always get a little nonsense, it shows you are being taken seriously. Anyhow, merry christmas everyone on both sides, its been a fun year to date. Lets get sloshed and have a ball and eat too much ;) Love and peace JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2003.12.24 17:56:00 -
[13] Now that, lady Havana, is quality political analysis. Well done. There are of course a lot of interesting slants to the whole matter yet unrevealed ... some of them will likely never reach the light of day. But you are pretty much on the money that old TTI's primarily talent was self delusion. For my part I've told it more or less until I am blue in the face; I declared blood feud on Ragnar from a sense of outrage at his betrayal of the VA that voted to back him, and in self-defence against the murder bounty he placed on my head from wanton spite. It was never about power and presige. It was always about stabbing a tyrant in the face. End of the day, I am well satisfied. And FA went from being war enemies to honoured allies. Moral of the story being. A foe you can trust is better than a deceitful ally. PS. I really didn't know that Ragnar tried to sellout the VA to EVO at an early stage ... wow, that would have made superb war-propaganda at the time ... ah well. Love and peace JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.24 17:56:00 -
[14] Now that, lady Havana, is quality political analysis. Well done. There are of course a lot of interesting slants to the whole matter yet unrevealed ... some of them will likely never reach the light of day. But you are pretty much on the money that old TTI's primarily talent was self delusion. For my part I've told it more or less until I am blue in the face; I declared blood feud on Ragnar from a sense of outrage at his betrayal of the VA that voted to back him, and in self-defence against the murder bounty he placed on my head from wanton spite. It was never about power and presige. It was always about stabbing a tyrant in the face. End of the day, I am well satisfied. And FA went from being war enemies to honoured allies. Moral of the story being. A foe you can trust is better than a deceitful ally. PS. I really didn't know that Ragnar tried to sellout the VA to EVO at an early stage ... wow, that would have made superb war-propaganda at the time ... ah well. Love and peace JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2003.12.26 04:10:00 -
[15] Tehel, if you want to understand this "story" you need to start the painful process of examining your own flawed understanding of the things which happened. Part of this is the hard statistical analysis of who is likely to be telling the truth, based on supporting evidence, opinions, and accounts. In a way your unquestioning loyalty to Ragnar and his decisions is kinda charming from a poetic perspective. But you really need to wake up and see the truth of what actually happened if you ever hope to understand the issues. Its nothing to be that ashamed about though; Li Shang seems to claim loftier pseudo-intellectual credentials than you, and he is even more clueless. Love and peace JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.26 04:10:00 -
[16] Tehel, if you want to understand this "story" you need to start the painful process of examining your own flawed understanding of the things which happened. Part of this is the hard statistical analysis of who is likely to be telling the truth, based on supporting evidence, opinions, and accounts. In a way your unquestioning loyalty to Ragnar and his decisions is kinda charming from a poetic perspective. But you really need to wake up and see the truth of what actually happened if you ever hope to understand the issues. Its nothing to be that ashamed about though; Li Shang seems to claim loftier pseudo-intellectual credentials than you, and he is even more clueless. Love and peace JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2003.12.31 17:44:00 -
[17] So Jehutty, you are accusing Mademoiselle Havanna and I of being the same person are you? Interesting. Would it be fair to say you are staking your credibility on that charge monsieur? JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.31 17:44:00 -
[18] So Jehutty, you are accusing Mademoiselle Havanna and I of being the same person are you? Interesting. Would it be fair to say you are staking your credibility on that charge monsieur? JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2003.12.31 19:24:00 -
[19] For the record Tehel, I always wanted TTI booted if they refused to support the proportional funding concept. The idea of "faked withdrawl" never impressed me much. Some people liked it, I could never see a way it would work, and considered it ridiculous and dishonest. What is funny about that log you posted is the fact that Ragnar and Roark are the same person. Its pretty damned funny that he was roleplaying with himself to try to get "himself" into the channel ;) Thats almost comedy gold in itself. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2003.12.31 19:24:00 -
[20] For the record Tehel, I always wanted TTI booted if they refused to support the proportional funding concept. The idea of "faked withdrawl" never impressed me much. Some people liked it, I could never see a way it would work, and considered it ridiculous and dishonest. What is funny about that log you posted is the fact that Ragnar and Roark are the same person. Its pretty damned funny that he was roleplaying with himself to try to get "himself" into the channel ;) Thats almost comedy gold in itself. JF Public Forum |
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